Avoid Bad Guests: Trust Marketing for Vacation Rentals with Leo Walton

00:00:00 - Jenn Boyles

Something I hear all the time from those against using direct bookings for their short term rental business is how can they trust the guests who will book on their website? They're under the impression that by having reviews on Airbnb, those guests are completely trustworthy. So grab a cup of tea, a cup of coffee, even a glass of wine, settle in and listen up as we're going to be talking about knowing your guest.

You are listening to the Direct Booking Success Podcast, bringing you all the information you need for your short term rental to stand out from the crowd. I'm your host, Jenn Boyles. As an owner and manager myself, I know how hard it can be to navigate the hospitality industry. I'm here to help so you too can have direct booking success.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Direction Booking success podcast. I'm Jenn Boyles, your host. I'm so happy to be here with you today. Today I'm bringing you a conversation that I had with Leo Walton, and full disclaimer, I had a tech issue and the video of me during the interview failed to record. However, I do have the video of Leo, so if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll just see pictures of me when I'm speaking. And if you're listening on a podcast app, don't worry, you won't notice anything different. Now, Leo Walton is the co-founder and VP of growth for Superhog and before I bring him on, I want to tell you a little bit about his product, know your guest, and how it has helped me manage my own business. I see so many posts and random Facebook groups with hosts complaining about having issues with guests, coming in to find stained sheep, their holes in the wall, or broken furniture. And I have to say that touchwood, I've never had to deal with anything like that. Hopefully I haven't jinxed myself now, but there are two reasons why. The first is that most of my bookings come direct, and my marketing really only calls in who is a perfect fit for my place. And the second is that all my guests are verified through Superhog, no matter how they've booked. Having this service is great for my peace of mind, but it also acts as a deterrent. So for those who are thinking of booking only just to trash the place, they don't even bother. So,thank you Leo. Thank you for creating such an amazing product with your co founders, and welcome to the podcast.

00:02:39 - Leo Walton

Thank you, Jenn. It's lovely to be here. What a nice introduction. Perhaps your 103rd episode could be the best. Who knows this could be the one.

00:02:46 - Jenn Boyles

It will. It will be the one that goes viral. I know it already. I know it because you were here, my friend. Now, Leo, tell us a bit about how you got into this crazy industry in the first place.

00:02:58 - Leo Walton

Yeah. So thank you. It's great to be here. I was sat in a classroom at university and a professor said to us that 50% of you will work in an industry that doesn't exist today and 90% of you will end up working for a company that doesn't exist today. And I thought that was amazing. I was instantly quite kind of excited by that prospect because I think we're when you're a young person, especially starting out in the world, you never just want to think you're repeating the cycle of what everyone else has done. You're trying to build something new. And that stayed with me. So when I left university, I wasn't applying for internships or graduate roles at established businesses. I was looking for startups. And that led me to one fine stay, which was my introduction to the short term rental space where I met Humphrey as well, one of my co founders. If anyone doesn't know, it was a company that was one of the early runners and riders in the tech enabled home sharing space and went the route of doing full service management as well as distribution, and eventually was sold to the Accor Hotel group. And that whole process, that cradle to grave process of watching a business grow and evolve had a very big impression on me. And I knew I wanted to go and do the process again as soon as I possibly could. And it also made me an industry junkie. I've got a hospitality background, so from the age of sort of 14, my brother and I were washing pots and then serving food in restaurants, locally in our town. And we love this idea of like Friday, Saturday nights, making really good money, really good tips, serving people their food and making connections with people. Loved it. So the fact that I could, I guess, merge that sort of hospitality background with having a post graduation job was, to me, was absolutely fantastic. And I think the thing I find most fascinating about it is that unlike the hotel industry, anybody can put a website together and create a listing and be the most professional host imaginable with just one listing. Don't need scale to do that. And I think that's very, very cool. And we have a huge range of customers now at Superhog, where they just have one listing, but they're so passionate about their listing and it's very professional, it's very well managed, and there's all the bells and whistles that go with it. And then we've got people right there at the hundred listing scale at a completely different stage in their growth. So it's amazing. You meet some really interesting characters, as you know well and truly, Jenn. And yeah, I found it. I find it a very cool place to do business. But again, going right back is I've never forgotten my hospitality routes and I aim to always be very customer focused. Any craziness can be going on in the kitchen, but it's about making sure that your customer feels the love on the restaurant floor. And I think that's how we try to do business at Superhog. Yeah.

00:05:24 - Jenn Boyles

I didn't realize that you'd been a waiter back in the day. And I can see it. Actually, I can see it because you're chatty and you're personable. I don't know if the people would have gotten their food hot.

00:05:33 - Leo Walton

Such a fair point. I think someone did actually say to me once that, like, just remember, they are here to eat and then they're not here to listen to you. We learned that through trial and error, let's say.

00:05:42 - Jenn Boyles

Oh, brilliant. All right, well, we're going to talk about trust marketing because that is really what you've become an expert in, isn't it?

00:05:51 - Leo Walton

I think that's right.

00:05:52 - Jenn Boyles

So can we start with what it is? What is trust marketing?

00:05:55 - Leo Walton

Yeah. Well, in answering, I'll probably. I suppose I'll probably say why I think superhog is an expert in it. Because by doing nothing about short term rental risk, and there is risk, there is risk of damage and parties and fraud and chargebacks and criminality. By doing nothing about it as a host, you're being very fatalistic and essentially accepting that it will happen at some point. There's an old russian proverb which I particularly enjoy in this context, which is trust, but verify. And that's what we're trying to do, right, which we're selling trust. This idea that you can find out ahead of time who this person is to ensure that you are having the right type of guest in your property. But then the whole idea of trust marketing goes a little bit deeper than that. And you touched on one of the key aspects of it, which is making sure that you're targeting the right guests with your listing. So if you don't want parties, I wouldn't suggest having a hot tub, which you put on page one of the listing. And if you want families to come and stay, I'd suggest highlighting the fact that you've got a soft play area and kids sized beds and stair gates everywhere. I say that because, you know, Jenn, I'm fully at that point in life where that's the type of accommodation I'm searching for with my two very, very young children. So Subaru is a trust toolkit. It's a risk management toolkit you can use. And we've got an insurance background. Right. The first thing we did was sell lines of host cover into the industry and then we realized we could wrap software into it to ensure that people were screening their guests to de-risk the transaction and make sure less damage comes out the other side and de risk the transaction by a factor of ten. Genuinely, you have a 10th of the amount of damage if you screen people, because it's the big damage you've got to be really worried about. But again, it goes deeper. We try to protect people's properties and prevent parties and things happening, but we're also trying to create an environment where people are thinking about bonding with their guests from the word go. And you get a phone number from them, use it, find out why they're coming, find out what you can do to enhance that experience. That's essentially the world we're in. We're in the pre arrival world. And you can use that as a really great opportunity to find out who they are, find out what you can do and find out how you can enhance their experience. Whether you've got one listing, whether you've got 1500 listings. In fact, it's possibly easier when you've got one listing because then you can really tailor it to your property and your needs. And that's where I hope super Hollywood becomes a specialist and certainly where I hope I'm pitching my tent is this idea that the process of getting to know who your guest is starts before they arrive. And yes, you need to screen them because you need to screen out the bad ones. But you shouldn't make a process that's solely focused on the bad ones. It's about enhancing it for the good ones in all the ways that we've, in all the ways we've just discussed. And then when they're in your property, whether the booking has come direct or whether it's come from an OTA, make sure that the next time they book, they book directly with you because you've enhanced that experience. And there's lots of tips and tricks you can use for that, right? That anyone who listens to your podcast will hear.

00:08:38 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really, really true. I use guest verification or guest vetting with every single guest, no matter how they've booked. It's just what I do. And I once in a while will get some pushback of, why do I have to do this? But most people are quite happy to do it because I'm showing them that I'm trustworthy by having this, that I'm professional and I've had to prove who I am as well. So I find that most people are quite receptive to it. So let's talk about misconceptions about trust marketing. What are some of the common misconceptions that you've encountered?

00:09:17 - Leo Walton

It's about showing yourself to be a trustworthy business. Right. So a misconception would be that it's not a two way street, because ultimately it is. You might be dealing with a guest that actually doesn't want to book on a platform, but might start their search on a platform and they might then be going off to try and find a direct booking website. There's got to be trust queues throughout your website, right? If you're trying to bond with them and redirect people, how do your hosts talk about you? What are your business reviews? What are your other guest reviews? What's your profile locally? Does your website appear high up on the key search terms? Yes, because we've got a blog and it's powered by all this local stuff, the experience stuff behind it. So all of that builds trust that someone who's booking halfway around the world and has never even heard of the town they're going to come and stay in until they decide to stay there, will be half thinking, I'm going to get scammed here. Everybody at some point in the transaction thinks that. So you as the host, the operator here, you're trying to layer in the little bits of trust from the word go and. But that should be your focus on your direct booking website and also in your listing copy, because that can be a way of taking people off the OCA and into your site and giving them an idea of how to find you, but also just bonding with them ultimately, whether it's a direct booking or not. And in doing that, you will find that you're having a greater impact with them. And so when they arrive, they're not thinking, oh, I'm staying in an insert Ota's name, they're going to say, oh, I'm staying with Jenn in Liverpool. And that process can be started from the minute they start browsing your website. And if you're using a tool like ours, you could also use it to enhance that. Cause you can put your branding over that journey and ask questions that you wanna ask and things of that nature. So I think that's the first misconception, is the first one being a two way street. Remember that. The second one, you can start from a very, very early part of that guest journey.

00:11:01 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah. And it's not something that you need after you scale. This is something from the beginning as you're building your brand. I have to say that one of the things I ask my guests when they're filling out their digital registration is how they hear of my property and whatnot. And the best one I had in the last was from Airbnb. And I did a happy dance because they had found me on Airbnb. And then they went and searched for me online, found the website, said, this is where we want to be and book. So a bit of a happy dance. And how they found me was weaving my brand and that trust through the listing.

00:11:40 - Leo Walton

Yeah. A lot of people forget this, but the OTAs are a marketing channel, aren't they? So they're a good thing. It's just making sure you have a good marketing mix. Right. OTas are a good thing if you're using them, not seeing it the other way around. Right. And it's that understanding that Google is also your OTA and how you present on Google is going to drive people that way, especially with AI coming and disrupting the OTA game massively. I'm sure it's something that if you've not talked about it yet on the podcast, it will be coming. I can't talk about it enough. Throw everything up into the air and there's a chance to outrank someone else in how they see that information based on how you've set up your website and trust is a massive, massive, massive part of it, because the behavior of others will also dictate how that appears in the search. So, yes, and essentially your guest then enters your environment, back to the idea that you need to trust them. Lots of people tell me the reason they just take OTA bookings is because they're worried about credit card fraud and payment gateways and things of that nature. That's why if you are going to have people come with your own website, you do need to have things like fraud prevention tools, screening 3d secure through your bank. So it's, again, it's that two way street the whole time being aware of it. I want to generate more traffic, but I don't want a potential criminal to think this is a really easy place to make a booking and then launder money, not turn up, have a party, deal drugs, all of that stuff. So again, it's that two way street, recognizing quality and recognizing that the consumer can trust you and then you can trust them. There are a wide range of tools that you can use to do that because I think it's often the case that when people build a direct button website, they don't build it properly. Then someone's going to see that that's a really easy website to do a chargeback on or something of that nature.

00:13:17 - Jenn Boyles

And I think that it's being smart about how you're running your business and realizing that it is a business. When I started, and probably a lot of people started, it was a hobby. I'm just going to give this a go and see if it works. It was a bit of a gamble, it was a bit of fun. And then it was, as I got into it, I realized how much more professional and how much of a business this needs for it to grow and for me to get the right guests in. So how does a super hog help short term rental managers, property managers sort of build and also to maintain that trust with their guests?

00:13:51 - Leo Walton

I think that starters, I find it baffling that as an industry, when you're at certainly the more established events, a lot of managers will focus on how many listings they have, not how much revenue they make from their listings. And that's the thing I always think is really interesting because you could look at it the other way and go, well, hey, I managed to make a million dollars a year from just two listings versus I've got 20 listings that I'm working as hard as I can to do it. And why do I say that? Because the name of the game is to run your business most efficiently and most effectively. And so I think one of the things that investing heavily in trust can do is it can help you professionalize to the point where you can actually get more value out of a listing and what is in. You don't have to underprice it to get bookings because you've worked the listing hard and everyone knows it's good and it's getting good reviews because you're bonding with that guest the whole time. So I think a lot of people end up underselling their listings because they've not been able to create a unique space where their guest sees the magic of the place. And part of that is investing in trust technology. The other thing is repeat bookings again. So how do you make sure that you're having an impact with a guest so that even if they don't come back to that same property, they might come to another property that you manage. Well, that's investing in that pre stay environment to make sure that your branding appears in the guest journey. You're asking them the questions you want to ask, you're finding out about them, you're using the contact information you have for them to message them ahead of time and take a really personal approach to working with them. They're, I guess, kind of the main things in terms of driving value. There's a Warren Buffett quote that you've probably heard me say this before, but it's so true. It's only when the tide goes out that you can tell he's been swimming with their pants down. So, like, the reputational loss of not having any trust technology tools in your business means if you manage properties on behalf of hosts, the host is going to say, well, don't work with that property because there was a big Halloween party. Reputation takes a long time to build and a minute to destroy. And so just think about that. Just think about swimming with your pants down. Not you. Sorry. Think about, you know, think about swimming in that analogy. And I think it's relevant here because the reputational loss, the financial loss, and then not getting those hosting guest reviews is, well, guest reviews in this context wouldn't matter. But not having those host reviews on your website is massive. And you see so many hosts doing it really well in their local area and they establish themselves and they build all that trust. And again, that helps. It gives you credibility. It gives your website credibility. It means you can charge more for your listings. It means you can win better deals. You need all of that. And parties and criminal activity and properties are corrosive to all of that. I'm not trying to scare munger, but I think that's just a good way of looking at it. Right. It's paying a penny up front, you know?

00:16:22 - Jenn Boyles

No, I think so, yeah. You've hit the nail on the head on the challenges. When you're a property manager, you have to wear so many hats, you're everything to your business. And when you start out, you have to do your marketing, you have to be your accountant and your figures, you have to know the cleaning side of things and then the hospitality side of things, and then you have to look at. But your business practices, it grows and grows and grows. So I think there's a lot of pitfalls that can happen as you're starting out. So if someone were to come to you and say, I want to create a short term rental business and I'm going to start out, what would your first lessons be to them about building that trust?

00:17:04 - Leo Walton

Well, the first thing I would do is start thinking about every different marketing channel you can hit to find a guest and then laser focus in on how you best game that marketing channel to get the most out of it. And pretty soon you're gonna see that part of that mix needs to be a direct booking website. Right. And then I would say if you're trying to build a management business where you manage other people's listings, you need to get your host to love what you do for them. So they talk about it locally, so they tell their friends, especially in a mountain town or resort town where lots of people have second homes and they write, they document it online as well. So you can see that if you just want to host for yourself or you're going to buy property and you might only have two or three, which is also a really good way of maximizing the return from properties, you might not need to have 22 or three listings. If you're owning them, think about who your guest is and market towards that guest and how you style and how you set up your properties. And that allows you to then begin with, make sure that you're giving yourself the best shot of finding the right guests to come and stay. And then it's about putting the trust tools in place as well. So it would depend. It would depend on what your growth strategy is. But I'd start with marketing. I really would try. And because everybody's got properties in your area, how do you find it? I've been to places where they talk about people that are getting bookings from, they started getting more mid stay bookings or corporate bookings. It's about building that. See yourself beyond being an Airbnb business, you have to, right, you have to think about that full mix. And maybe you end up getting film studio bookings where they film adverts in your home, all that sort of stuff. There's such a range you can do and then design your properties back that way. And again, if you're managing on behalf of a host and you want to grow that part of it, host reputation at the start is the most important thing. And that means don't get caught out, don't let bad guests come and stay. Right.

00:18:43 - Jenn Boyles

It's nice to have strategies that help you keep that graceful allure of your business going. What else can you share with us that would help us connect with our guests through trust?

00:18:59 - Leo Walton

What I love about this industry is there's so many people who, the vast majority of hosts, just work in one area, just work in one neighborhood, and people are very passionate. They're very knowledgeable about it. So, you know, I would showcase that through a blog, through videos, through social media. I would make connections with local businesses to enhance the in-stay experience. Like, if you're in Liverpool and, you know, you know, the bakery around the corner and the wine shop around the corner, start stocking the property with those things, but also nod to it on social media. Create content around it. Create a brand around it. Remember that even if you've got one property that's a brand, I've seen people do that on Instagram. You can really make your one vacation rental a brand on Instagram, and you can pull in what's going on in your destination. So don't forget that, because people are usually searching for a destination before they're searching for a property. So it might just be the destination that pulls people in and then network locally. Don't just think about marketing as an online thing. Think of it as who within my community does. Is there a tourism office in your area? So it might just be the destination that pulls people in and then network locally. Don't just think about marketing as an online thing. Think of it as who within my community. Is there a tourism office in your area? Is there a network of people that there businesses that need to bring people in for conferences or just work Monday through Thursday? Whatever is going on in your local area, don't be invisible. Also, know what's going on. The best property managers have that mix of online marketing, and they have a presence in their local area. I could name drop, but I won't. But you watch these guys do it, and everybody knows who they are, and they're local business people and they're really well known. Again, big or small, there's really no need to think, oh, this isn't for me if I've got one listing, because again, your listing, you might just get one or two regulars from a source you never thought of, and that shores up 50% of your revenue for one year. Stuff like that can happen. So again, see it as a business and think beyond the property itself and dig into your local area. That's good advice.

00:20:52 - Jenn Boyles

Definitely. I've loved this, Liu. I really have, because of your insights, you're in this trust world when it's what you help hosts and property managers give their guests. And for the guests as well, for them to be able to stay in a place that is professional and real. But I have two questions to ask you before I let you go. One is, how did you guys come up with the name Superhog? And the other one is, I want to know the worst things you've ever heard of guests doing. Just some real clangers.

00:21:26 - Leo Walton

What's in a name? So it's funny, isn't it? Sort of. When you're part of the development of something, you don't look outside of it very much to think about how it might be being perceived. But occasionally I get this. I get people saying to me, what is Superhog? You know, where is that simple answer? We want to help super host operators and guests to connect with one another.

00:21:46 - Jenn Boyles

Now I understand. Now I understand where it comes from. And can you tell us some clanger, some really terrible stories just as an ending, as a bit of fun?

00:21:56 - Leo Walton

Yeah. I mean, there's so many that it's hard to know what to hold in on. I guess the best party pictures I ever saw was that the cleaner took the next day and there was a stiletto trapped in an oven door. And I really liked the idea that at the end of the night, someone just kicked this up and got their stiletto court and said, that's it, I'm leaving. That's the end of my party. You know, like, haven't we all. Haven't we all left a party in such undignified terms as that? I just thought, whoever that person is, and it was just one stiletto. So they obviously hop home in the other stiletto. And then you're talking the usual, kind of like in a more mundane, but just as awful, Halloween party. This is going back to our insurance side of our business, where people haven't been using screening, right? Someone's left a bath running, falling asleep, and water cascades down the floor of the townhouse on every floor. It's all there. Both accidental, malicious, side by side. It's all there. And then obviously, we've seen some pretty. I won't go into it now because I don't think it is a bit x rated, but, you know, the things that get found where additional cleaning is required, that's a sort of payout situation. Some really bizarre things get found. Also, it goes a step further. Right. When criminal activity is happening as well, they will look for the path of least resistance and they'll just book a vacation rental for three or four days, and then on they go. So there's a lot of it going on that the host doesn't even know is happening, right? It all feels and looks above board, but it's all happening. Don't get caught out. Don't be swimming with your pants down. As tempting as it is.

00:23:19 - Jenn Boyles

Thank you Leo so much for coming on today. The links for people to find you superhog.com if you want to find out more about superhog and know your guests. But if you want to contact Leo on Instagram, Superhog Leo and then the superhog account is superhog official and I'll put those links in the show notes as well. Thank you Leo so much for coming on today.

00:23:46 - Leo Walton

Thanks for having me, Jenn. I've really enjoyed it.

00:23:48 - Jenn Boyles

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode of the direct bookings of this podcast, please let me know what you'd like and what you'd like to hear about by leaving a ranking and review on your podcast app. If you're not listening to it on a podcast app where you can leave reviews, head over to Google on Direct Booking Success, or leave a comment on YouTube. In the next episode, I'm going to be singing Oh, Canada. Well, maybe not actually singing it, but I will be celebrating Canada's birthday for Canada Day, and I'll be highlighting how where your properties are can be a huge asset in your market. Until then, please go out and take action for your own direct booking success.

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