Ditch the Facebook Group for Advice on the Right Property Management Software with John Stokinger

00:00:00 - Jenn Boyles

What should I use to manage my Airbnb and VRBO calendars? What PMS should I use? What software do you use? Do any of these questions sound familiar? They will if you're in any of the Airbnb and STR Facebook groups. I think a question like this is asked daily and the results from asking are everyone jumping on and giving their opinion but not necessarily giving helping advice? So what should you ask instead of sticking around for the answer?

You are listening to the Direct Booking Success Podcast, bringing you all the information you need for your short term rental to stand out from the crowd. I'm your host, Jenn Boyles. As an owner and manager myself, I know how hard it can be to navigate the hospitality industry. I'm here to help so you too can have direct booking success.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Direct Booking Success Podcast. I'm Jenn Boyles, your host. Thank you for including me in your day today. I have John Stokinger with me now. John is the director of sales for Direct. Hi, John.

00:01:17 - John Stokinger

Hi. How are you?

00:01:18 - Jenn Boyles

Good, good. And I see you're decked out in your Direct Merch there.

00:01:21 - John Stokinger

It's how I roll, yes.

00:01:23 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah. All right. So if you're listening to this, you have to know you can go on YouTube and watch it. But he's got his Direct t-shirt on and his Direct hat, so he is ready to go. Good. Glad to have you here, John. Let's start with your background and how you got into this crazy industry.

00:01:38 - John Stokinger

Agreed. I stumbled in like most in the industry. Right. I sold hardwood lumber prior to coming into the vacation rental industry. So I guess it was about nine years ago. I was looking for a remote role and I was getting, you know, sick of the lumber industries. Didn't want to do that, I wanted to work remotely. And I found a job with one of our payment processors in the industry and that's how I kind of came in.

00:02:05 - Jenn Boyles

Right, great. You're the Director of Sales in Direct. So how did you get from payment processor to Direct?

00:02:12 - John Stokinger

I've worn more hats than I'd like to admit, so I hopped around more than most think is appropriate, but it's kind of how it's done today. But I was with that payment processor for a while, Ascent. It's not a big secret. I was with Ascent processing or Payment Now. I took another role in digital marketing for another company. I spent a couple years at track. I had Travel Net Solutions as a senior solution consultant there. Had an opportunity to join Hopper Distribution after two years at Travel Net Solutions. so I was with them shortly. And my non compete ran out back when non competitors here in the states were a thing, which they are no longer. But my non-compete ran out with Travel Net and I had an opportunity to jump over and I joined Direct a year and a half ago now.

00:03:03 - Jenn Boyles

Great. Yeah. It sounds like you've been kicking around for about a decade doing everything on the vendor side that you possibly can.

00:03:08 - John Stokinger

Yeah, it's giving me a unique perspective. I've seen lots of different aspects of how the technology and of the vendor side of the industry works, and so I have some unique input.

00:03:20 - Jenn Boyles

Yes, definitely. And we're going to get into them. And I want to say we met in person at the can stays rental alliance conference. Oh, goodness. Was that April? May. When was it?

00:03:30 - John Stokinger

April. I think it was the end of April.

00:03:31 - Jenn Boyles

End of April, 2024. It was great to meet you, and it meant a lot to have you and Mateo both from the no B's podcast up to support us Canadians in what we're doing up here. It was great. So tell us a bit about the No BS Podcast.

00:03:48 - John Stokinger

Yeah, so Mateo and I, I guess it was over three years ago now. We wanted to start a podcast that was not tips and tricks. It was just, you know, what is that conversation that you would have at the bar that is unedited, unfiltered? I'd say there's some editing that goes involved, but not a ton of editing, but definitely unfiltered. And you're not going to go ahead and say that conversation to a prospect at your booth, say me selling Direct or whatnot at a vendor booth. We just really wanted to have those conversations and reach out to founders and owners of the different companies. And we now put out 125, 126 ish different episodes. So we're having a blast doing it. And for us, it was just more of a. A labor of love. Obviously, we're not making a ton of money on it. That's not the point. The point was we wanted to better understand the industry and to really solidify those connections. And these conversations we have at the No BS have allowed us to do that.

00:04:46 - Jenn Boyles

Great. So I have a pet peeve, and I think it's one of your pet peeves as well. If you're in any of the great Facebook groups out there, Airbnb groups, STR groups, short term rental groups, almost daily, I hear or see a question in there about what PMS should I use, what software I should use. What software should I use for that? And people just pile on with all their opinions and it drives me nuts. And I thought you would be a great person to come in and we can talk this through about what people could do instead and what those questions are when they are looking for software, such as a PMS or website builder or whatever it may be. Does it drive you as crazy as it does me?

00:05:30 - John Stokinger

Absolutely bonkers. I've actually done some social posts on it. I've done No BS like our short episode on our daily. It's frustrating from both sides. It's frustrating from the side of the person asking the question. Also from the ones answering things. I use this, I love them. Okay. Or check them out. I've been using them for five years. All right. Why? Like there's no qualifying questions from either side or answers. So it's definitely a huge, huge pet peeve.

00:05:59 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah. And I swear it's daily. I see these things daily.

00:06:02 - John Stokinger

Oh yeah. It's a delicate thing from as a vendor you're trying to monitor these, right. For me as running the sales of a software company, I try to monitor. But you can't be salesy, right. You're not allowed to post without, but you can answer questions. But then I'm not a host, I'm not a property manager. So coming from someone that's selling something, it comes across a little salesy. So you know, it's a delicate thing to do.

00:06:27 - Jenn Boyles

It is. Yeah, it is. I usually just stay away from them. Now I just can't because it is frustrating. And we're coming from a place where we have the answers and I understand that the people asking the questions are new or this is a new thing for them and I get it, but it's a can of worms. It really is. So let's get into it instead of just asking, hey, what are you using? Let's talk about what are the qualifying questions that we should be looking at instead?

00:06:57 - John Stokinger

Yeah, great. I mean this is a great topic. I think that the person that's asking the question should set up parameters that they are going to get an actual answer that they can use and they can digest. If we're talking about property management software, let's just use that as an example because that's what I sell. Instead of saying what PM's should I use or what about x software? Maybe ask yourself some questions before you start asking questions. Write them down. These are the types of things that you should have. Like and put in a paragraph when you're typing it up here, like how many units do I manage today? And how many do I see myself managing in, say, five years? Because where you are today and where you are five years could be completely different. Maybe it's the same. Maybe you're very happy in your definition of Direct Booking Success Booking Success. Is five units perfect? That should be stated. Hey, I'm in five units today and I don't see myself growing. Right? What types of units do I manage? Right? Is it econo or is it luxury? Where are they? Is it in the vacation destination? Is it urban? Is it in the mountains? Is it beachside? There's so many different parameters here. Am I only managing short term rent or am I running a hybrid model or a boutique hotel or a mid term rent? Right. Not all software is set up for all these different things we talked about. Where are they located? Right? What distribution channels do I want to be pushing my inventory to? Am I just managing, do I only want to push to Airbnb and Burbo, or am I pushing to booking in a bunch of these ancillary channels as well? And does this software, do they charge a fee to use their channel manager, like a percentage? Basically. What's the cost? Obviously the cost is important. When I'm looking at these things. That's truly the only thing that's important to people's questions is cost. Well, really, just what's written costs as opposed to what is the actual cost, is the total cost of ownership or it can be two completely different things. If you look at some of this software, there's an entry level solution, but then there's add ons to get the full gamut of what you're looking for. So what is the total cost of ownership of using this solution when you actually are at the tier that you need to be at to be Direct Booking Success Booking Successful? Do I need trust accounting? Do I need an integrated payment processor that allows me to accept payments and pay out? Are all my inventory my own or do I have owners? Am I paying my owners through my system or am I doing that outside of my system? So many different things. Instead of just going, what software do you use? Do you love it? Oh, yeah, I use this software. It's great. Oh, perfect. I'm gonna sign up for it then. Let's talk about websites. I think this is a super, this.

00:09:41 - Jenn Boyles

Is the, just before you get to that, I think you made a really good point of looking at the price because when we're coming in, say we've got a smaller portfolio or you're wanting to scale or not wanting to scale whatever it is, but cost is more of an issue when you're just getting started. So I think you've made a really good point at the cost that's advertised might not be the cost that you will end up paying because there are different tiers or different parts of that software that you need to utilize. And when you're asking people for their opinion in Facebook groups, they're not going to break that down for you, are they?

00:10:18 - John Stokinger

To be fair, on occasion I see someone that's very fully transparent and they break it all down. I'm like, yes, yes. And I wish I could add one of those posts, because some do, but most don't. And think about what all this software does before we get to the Direct Booking Success booking side. Like think of all the ancillary solutions that you potentially might need to bolt onto that software and software allows you to bolt it on. Is it an open API? Think about things like a guest book, is it already built out in the software? Or do you need to get something, another solution? Or what about locks? What about insurance? If we're talking to hosts, right, and they want to get into bookDirect Booking Success, but today they've only been using Airbnb and Vrbo, right. They don't necessarily need to worry about air cover. And there's some different things that cover certain aspects of damage waivers and that kind of thing. But what about travel insurance? And then what about insurance? Because if you're booking Direct Booking Success air cover doesn't cover that. Right. So there's another thing that you need to bolt on and they all add up, right?

00:11:18 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah.

00:11:18 - John Stokinger

Like a lock company or like home automation, non dislocs. Right. There's a different level of what you can go ahead and buy and what they cover and they all cost money and most of them are her door. Right. So, yeah, if you're.

00:11:32 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, and if you're just starting, some of this might seem really overwhelming, but you have to think, and you made this point too, think about where you want to be in 510 years. Are you growing to, are you going to want to maybe look at some of these options?

00:11:47 - John Stokinger

Yeah. When you're first coming in, a lot of this doesn't matter, right. At two units, three units, four units, but now you're at ten units. Does your solution offer a discounted rate? So does your unit scale with you and make it affordable as you grow with your inventory?

00:12:02 - Jenn Boyles

So what's the best way of getting these answers, or getting these questions asked and getting the answers? What's the best thing to do?

00:12:09 - John Stokinger

You have to demo multiple solutions. Obviously I want you to demo Direct Booking Success, but there's 100 different property management solutions and I don't think that's shooting high. I think there are over a hundred different solutions out there that will cover all sorts of things. I think there are very solid solutions out there. I obviously believe that we're the best. But, you know, I wouldn't want someone just to listen to this podcast and go, you know what, I think Direct Booking Success sounds great for me. I would want them to demo Direct Booking Success and then demo a couple of different other options as well, and then make the best decision for you and your business for today and for your future.

00:12:45 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, yeah. No, I think that that's a really strong point there because again, going back to when everyone says, oh, I use this, I love it, I use this one, I love it. Their business model could be completely different from yours and there's things that might be important to them that aren't to you.

00:13:01 - John Stokinger

Right.

00:13:02 - Jenn Boyles

You know? Yeah. So I think, yeah, it's a really strong thing to do. The demos take the time to ask the questions and ask, should we say the same questions to each person, like to each company to find out those answers?

00:13:15 - John Stokinger

Well, 100%, if these are your priorities, if you have these five priorities or six priorities, if you're not asking the same questions to every solution, or getting some sort of response from every one of these, at least different categories, then you're not doing yourself a service. So you should be asking the same type of questions. Getting this in, seeing how that solution works and what does that workflow, right, because how my solution works as far as a software isn't exactly the same as what the other two or three you're demoing. So the workflow is going to be a little bit different, which is fine. I wouldn't also go into a, if you're using x solution today and you're like, you know what, I need to change. This isn't working for me. Please don't expect the same workflow for another solution. It's not going to be the same, and that's okay. But if it's not the same solution and it feels off to you, that's also not okay. You need to make a good decision for yourself.

00:14:13 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah. As you grow, you might need to switch and swap software as you go, but looking at the future first and getting the one that's going to fit you for many years to come. Because changing is not for the faint hearted, especially your PMS. Even with just one property, I can't imagine having more. And I think it's also an issue of finding out what you don't know, like, I don't know what I don't know. And it's finding that out and going, oh, I didn't even think of that implication or that how that would connect with something else I'm using. So these questions, it's not for the faint hearted, it really isn't. But you have to do this research to get the right solution so you don't have to change in the near future.

00:14:59 - John Stokinger

I mean, you want to find a solution that, if you're looking to scale, will scale with you and grow with you. A solution that would work from infancy all the way up to enterprise. Theoretically, if that's where you are, if you're already at 30, 40, 50 units, then you've been around the block, you understand what you're doing. This is an old bag. And you've probably already been on two or three solutions, unfortunately. Right. It's hard to say this, because I'm in the software industry and I work like software has a lifespan, right? It's going to peak from the vendor side. You're going to ride that wave while you're the talk of the town, and then there'll be some new software that's going to come up and their workflows are going to be a little more intuitive and it's a little more user friendly. And you know what? I think I want to try that out. And you're going to go to it or you're not. But there is definitely a lifespan of software. And if a software solution can expand their lifespan, if they're keeping their ear to the, I guess, nose to the grindstone or ear to what's actually being proactive in keeping the solution current. But it's still. At some point, it will be replaced at some point, yeah.

00:16:06 - Jenn Boyles

And I guess that's another question to ask, is to, or to look at. Another area to look at is what this company is doing to invest in their software, to keep themselves current, to keep themselves up with the Joneses. I know that Direct Booking Success is doing something like that. Guys have overhauled your website builder, haven't you?

00:16:26 - John Stokinger

Yeah, 100%. We just put a huge focus on it. Direct was always an enterprise first solution. So someone that had 50 plus properties, that's a kind of who we are going after, and I hate using. Going after her like we're hunting. That's a wrong choice of words. But, I mean, that was the focus of the solution and we've kind of looked in the mirror and said, how can we go ahead and help smaller property managers and hosts get into the industry with a solid solution that they could scale and grow with a and potentially not switch solutions, come in at early and then grow. We've always had a website solution that was part of Direct, but it wasn't. You still would need to go ahead and reach out to our team to help make some changes to some different things. So we built Direct Build, which is a super intuitive, easy to use website builder that's included with Direct. And you can make all the changes on your own, like a weebly or wix website builder that you would buy online and it's all included with your. So it's pretty fantastic and modern. And what you're getting as far as a booking engine is it's comparable, if not, in our opinion, somewhat superior to some of these other websites that you were getting agencies that you would spend $30,000 - $40,000 on if you have 50 units or something like that. So we're pretty excited about this new product.

00:17:54 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, yeah, no, I am too. It looks really cool. But I. This is another area to look at when you're looking at software, especially a PMS, is if you're in the market for a website, if your website's become stale and they have a shelf life too. Website, two to five years when you want to really start looking at the technology and the design and layout and stuff. But looking, if that is something that you want in your software, perhaps you have had that agency do a website, then you're looking at something different. That website component of a PMS is maybe not so important, but I can see that that can be really important for those that are looking.

00:18:33 - John Stokinger

I think that if you are a host or a smaller property manager and you're looking to get into the book direct movement and really make that work for you, you're questioning margins already. You're going, oh goodness, our margins. Every year our margins are getting less and less and less. And so we're making, you know, where we have more fees and we're making less. And now I have to go ahead and pay, even if it's only five grand or ten grand for a website and then, and then I have to pay for that to be continuously hosted every month. And then I have to go ahead and anytime I need to make a change, I'm either doing it on like my own builder, but it's not really working. Connecting with my PMS is great and that's a time suck for me, or I'm having to pay an agency now to do my pay per click and my essay and all these different things. As far as it gets really expensive, when I'm looking at some competitors' software solutions or website solutions that work, there's still a recurring monthly hosting fee. There's all these different things and you're making nothing. So a big important part of what we built here is how we can make this so it's a one time fee to build and then it's just free, you have it. And then if you want to go ahead and work with a pay per click and SEO agency, we have an amazing gentleman we've partnered with that would be way less expensive than some of these other solutions out there. So we are an affordable option for those that want to go ahead and tether or cut the cord or at least maybe not cut it fully. I'm not sure what you on the Direct Booking Success Podcast, right? Like what? I believe in a, like a 40-60 split of Direct Booking Success bookings to channel dependency. So I'm not saying cut fully because I don't think that's necessarily the greatest, you know, for so many reasons why I don't think that's a great idea. But how do you get 40% direct bookings, 50% direct bookings? How do you go ahead and do that without breaking the bank? Because ultimately you end up losing money until you figure it out.

00:20:41 - Jenn Boyles

And I totally agree with you, there might be a few people that might pat you on the back saying well done at book direct, but it's not going to be your guests, it's not going to be your business partners or the people in your company. Because what if something happens? As you said, there's lots of reasons not to go 100% keep those channels open. They're there, use them. Just don't spend all your time on them.

00:21:02 - John Stokinger

If you have a homeowner, they want to know that you're on all the channels, whether they are effective or not. They want to be on everything because it's marketing. You could have every channel checked off and it gets one booking a year and if you didn't have that channel, they'd be mad at you.

00:21:17 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, no, that's very, very true. So, yeah, 60 40, 70, that kind of in there is, I think, really ideal keeping those channels available, but putting your attention and energy into the book direct. So going back to these questions that we should be asking when we come up to a PM's or some sort of software to help our short term rental business, can you maybe give us your five top questions to start with? I know we can't get into all of them because I think we'd be here for hours. But sort of your top five to start with.

00:21:55 - John Stokinger

I think the top five is knowing your inventory count right where you are today and where do you expect to be? So that that would still be number one, I think is the solution in open API. So can I go ahead and connect whatever ancillary solutions in the future and what are they currently already connected to? So outside of it, are they an openaPi, what are the current connections like I'm using Xlock. So they are connected to these three lock companies, but if it's an open API and they're not connected to one that I need, that company could write to them. So that's not necessarily a deal breaker. So I guess that would be Openapi. Number of units. A number three would be what are the distribution options? Where can I distribute it? And do they charge a fee for the privilege of using their channel manager? Because think about that, it's almost like they're double dipping. You're already paying for a subscription to the PM's. Now you're going to pay for the privilege to connect to a channel that you're already paying for. Also, if you can steer clear of paying in the additional percentage, I mean, do it. Okay, that adds up quickly. An additional percentage here for everything. And then the other one would be a payment processor. Can I accept payments and pay out in the system again? Bring as much as you can bring into your solution. And not having to work in all these different logins and these different portals, that would make your life a lot easier. And I guess the last one would be expensive. I mean, still comes into it, but costs with regard to maybe also thinking about the web solution, is it easy to connect? And I. Is this connection keeping my margins where they need to?

00:23:41 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, no, I think those are some great questions to start with. And you'll get much better results than just saying, hey, what are you using? So these are some great questions and obviously have a demo, but you could use the Facebook groups by asking these detailed questions because there are people out there that are very helpful and they will answer them from their opinion.

00:24:04 - John Stokinger

One, oh my goodness, I totally forgot about a huge one. This would be number two, maybe number one on the list. And so like, how's their customer service? Can I reach somebody when I have an issue? Is there someone I can reach? We all work in software. You are buying into software; software breaks, there are bugs on software, there are connection issues. I don't care what solution is out there. If you are on a software solution, it hasn't been 100% seamless. So when you need to reach the company, can you reach somebody and are they competent, are they here and can you understand them? There's lots of different layers of this, but how's the customer direct booking and customer service?

00:24:47 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, that's a huge one. I can't believe that we missed that. Almost missed that one off the list.

00:24:52 - John Stokinger

I'm going to put that one at number one.

00:24:54 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, I know it is. And also to find out there are people there late at night or is it going to be just a bot answering a question, when are you going to be working on your business? Right, right. So are there going to be people around to answer your questions?

00:25:09 - John Stokinger

That's a great question. For one that isn't there 24/7 like that's us, we're not there twenty four seven. The qualifying question for that is if I can accept payment. Right. I'm broken right now. Can I reach someone no matter what? For us, we're not 24/7 but I, someone would reach out to me and say, I can't get payment, we'd get it fixed that night. And so I think that's the qualifying question there because some of these companies that are great companies don't have 300, 400 employees. Right.

00:25:38 - Jenn Boyles

If the software head office is on one time zone and your time zone is 9 hours difference, that might not be the right solution. You might need someone closer in time zone so that people are around when you're working on it.

00:25:52 - John Stokinger

Right.

00:25:52 - Jenn Boyles

Cool. Well, thank you so much, John, for coming on. Direct is a full service PMS right property management software and your new, it's called Direct Build. Is it the website solution? Which sounds amazing and I love the idea of keeping everything together and not having those additional hosting fees. You're paying for your PMS. But the website is included.

00:26:20 - John Stokinger

Yeah, there's a one time fee. That is the build fee. But after that there's no additional monthly anything. There's no posting fee, there's zero fees to keep your Direct booking website. And you don't have to reach out to anybody. You can make all the changes by yourself.

00:26:35 - Jenn Boyles

Yeah, love that. Love not having to contact people and just do it myself. And you've got a great offer for those listings, don't you?

00:26:43 - John Stokinger

Absolutely. So two weeks from today's date, when you hear this from today and add 14 days from here, we will 100% waive the fee, the implementation fee. So if you are interested in coming on, checking out Direct Booking Success and you take a demo with me within two weeks from when this airs and then you sign with us. There will be zero fees to get set up.

00:27:07 - Jenn Boyles

Great. And I'm going to put the links in the show notes so that nobody's listening to this in a year's time and going, well, I just came across it and you said two weeks. I had two weeks.

00:27:15 - John Stokinger

Well, if you reached out to me, I could still probably give you some sort of discount, so. Probably.

00:27:23 - Jenn Boyles

I'm sure you would. Yeah. Well, you've got great customer service there, so I'll put the dates in there, but that means that they're waiving the build cost. Okay. And that's. That's a great one. Thank you so much, John. Thank you so much for coming on today and talking about those questions, but also sharing more about Direct.

00:27:41 - John Stokinger

Well, it's been great. I appreciate you having me on and thanks for a wonderful conversation.

00:27:46 - Jenn Boyles

Thanks, John. If you know of someone who might be interested in listening or watching the Direct Booking Success Podcast, then please share a link with them. Or better yet, put it on social media and tell everyone you know, in the next episode, I'm going to be speaking to the person who coined the phrase “Passive, My Assive. And I can't wait for that. Until then, please go out and take action for your own Direct Booking Success booking Direct Booking Success Booking Success.

Hey, thanks for listening to the Direct Booking Success Podcast. For more information about this episode and others, head to the website directbookingsuccess.com/podcast. See you next time.